Interviews

This post is the eighth in the series of interviews I’m conducting with people I think you need to meet, people who have valuable and important comments about voiceover work; although in this case you probably already know my guest by his excellent work both on camera and behind the mic for many high profile clients.

We’re talking this time with Rodney Saulsberry. You don’t need me to tell you how talented Rodney is, but in case you need reminding, you can check out his demos on his web site, here.

My first question: Rodney, from listening to the first part of your presentation at VOICE 2007 and reading about you here and there, I get the impression that your first desire was to be an actor. That voiceover work grew out of that or became a part of that. So, where did your desire to act come from?

Rodney: You’re right. I started out as an actor and a singer. My desire to act came from my love of television as a kid growing up in the Midwest. Along the way, I kept hearing about this exciting end of the industry called voiceovers. I was often told that I had a great voice and that I should get into the voiceover field. I made a voiceover demo and it literally changed my life. You never know what your true calling in life is until it smacks you right in the face.

My second question: I’ve long believed that where we grow up has a powerful influence on our view of the world, so take us back to your childhood.
Where was that and what was life like?

Rodney: I was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, the home of the Motown Sound. My father was a professional singer, so music had a great influence on my childhood. I started performing around the house for anyone who would listen at a very young age. My parents always encouraged me and supported me. I give them total credit for the confidence instilled in me to do whatever I wanted to do in life. That is still my mantra today.

My third question: When you’re talking about performing and voiceover work and the like, you spend a lot of time on our attitude or approach to life; not just work. Why is that so important to you?

Rodney: Your attitude is everything. No matter how talented you are or how much energy you put into this industry, if the energy is negative, at the end of the day, you will not succeed. When you are positive you make others around you feel better. When you’re in between jobs for a long period of time, if you think positive and show patience, your luck will change.

Follow-up question: So, someone who is unhappy with having a “day job” because they haven’t yet made the transition to full-time voiceover work, could actually be working against what he or she hopes to accomplish?

Rodney: Absolutely. Think about being upset with someone in your life. The longer you hold on to the grudge, the longer you waddle in negativity. As soon as you forgive and release the negative tension in your mind and heart, you feel one hundred percent better. If you are unhappy in your current job, how could you ever happily pursue a full time voiceover career? It’s hard to achieve anything in a state of negativity. I do my best work when I’m happy.

My fourth question: Is there a role (or character type) you wish you could play, but haven’t yet been able to?

Rodney: No, there is no role that I wish I could play. The beauty of the business is the unknown. I feel that every role and character type will eventually cross my path. I will relish in the newness of it. I welcome the challenges.

My fifth question: How do you handle rejection?

Rodney: I handle it like most, I’m not happy about it. However, I concentrate on getting a lot of auditions so I’m not overly worried about any particular one of them.

My sixth question: What are some keys to doing well with auditions? Especially voiceover auditions, as distinct from an on-camera audition, for example.

Rodney: The key to doing well in a voiceover audition is the ability to be “free.” When you establish a condition of complete freedom in your mind, you open yourself up to the ability to do anything that is required. Now you are a piece of clay that the casting director can mold into whatever they need you to be.
My seventh question: After an audition, do you have any exercises you practice to ensure you don’t obsess over whether you were cast?

Rodney: There are some exercises that I do that are covered in my new book, Step Up to the Mic, but here is a shortcut approach, MOVE ON. Busy bees don’t have time to fret over lost honey. If you are diligently working hard to find more auditions, submit your demos and be the best voiceover actor that you can be, abundance will appear in your life in more ways then you could ever imagine. If you are really about the advancement of your career, you’ll be pleasantly surprised when you do get cast for something, because you forgot you ever auditioned for it.

My eighth question: At the bottom of our interview, I’m going to feature your post to YouTube of the tongue twisters. Do you actually use these pieces before a session? How did you get started with that?
Rodney: Yes, I do. I also use them in my teleclasses and workshops that I teach. I come from a singing background and I believe that reading a script and the voiceover industry in general is analogous to music. As a singer, I always vocalized before I sang. I believe that a voiceover artist should do the same, so I wrote these tongue twisters.

Follow-up question: I’m very interested to know more about how your musical background intersects with your voiceover work. For example, my major in college was music — vocal performance specifically (I wanted to become an opera singer back then) and I’ve found that so much of that training is valuable. Phrasing, tone placement, breath control, and so on. Can you expand on that?

Rodney: I started out as music major at the University of Michigan. I too had a dream of becoming an opera singer at one point in my college years. I’m so grateful for my time at the School of Music where I learned to breath, support my voice with my diaphragm and interpret a song. Every technique and concept without exception that I learned from my music teachers, apply when executing the performance of a voiceover script. I believe that reading a piece of copy is like singing a song. If I want the copy to be expressive, I add more melody to my read. In other words, I go up and down and back up again on different lines. I vary my inflections on certain words. If I want the copy to be flat with much less expression, I’m less colorful; my read is straight without much variance in each line. I call this action, mono-tone. You see, it always comes back to music.

My ninth and last question: You teach as well as act and I notice that you don’t charge nearly as much as you could for many of your classes. And certainly during VOICE 2007 in Las Vegas, you were very generous with your time. What’s the basis of your willingness to be so open and accessible?

Rodney: My desire to help others is as important to me as getting voiceover work for myself. I truly derive a lot of pleasure from watching other people grow and be successful. Especially those who have studied with me. Yes, my classes are less then some and more than others. I arrived at the cost of my classes by asking myself one question, what price point would be fair and affordable to the most people? I wake up every morning trying to figure out what I can give, who I can help. I am always trying to be the best servant that I can be. I believe that you’re not worthy of receiving anything until you give first!

My thanks to Rodney Saulsberry for taking time out of his very business schedule to provide such thoughtful answers to these questions. Remember that you have opportunities to study with Rodney not only in person, but over the telephone as well. I wish Rodney much continued success not only professionally but personally as well.

Now, here is that YouTube video I promised. If you can get your mind and your mouth around these exercises, you’re way ahead of me.

The seventh interview in my on-going series with people I think you need to know is actually with two friends and mentors, Dick Orkin and Christine Coyle. Dick and Christine are business partners and key players in “The Famous Radio Ranch,” the legendary home of some of the most brilliant radio advertising of the last 30 plus years.

Dick and Christine and the rest of the Radio Ranch team have just moved to a new headquarters, and took time from their hectic schedules to answer several questions. My thanks to both of them for their time and help, not only answering these questions; but also the literally hundreds of questions I’ve peppered them with in the last 10 years that I’ve known and studied with the two of them. As you read below, I’ll let you know who is speaking at the various points along the way. I think it should be fairly clear.

So, on to the interview.

Question 1: Is the story about the two of you meeting on the street in Chicago while Chris worked as a Kelly Girl, handing out sticks of gum true? What happened that this encounter became more than just 5 seconds of passing on the street?

Dick and Christine both answer: That’s not exactly the truth — it was Dick who was a Kelly Girl and I was a big mucky muck with a recording studio.

Question 2: Chris, what were your dreams back in your Kelly Girl days? Was that just something to do? Did you have any acting or career goals?

Christine answers: While I was “Kelly-ing”, I helped establish a theatre company called “The Imitation of Life Theatrical Company”, mostly composed of theatre friends from my Southern Illinois days. It also included a few actors I’d met while acting in a Jean Paul Sartre play (the name of which I no longer remember). One of the actors, Chuck Busch (now known as Charles Busch) was also a playwrite. He had written a very fun, campy send up of those Joan Crawford (my life is chaos) movies. I came on board as director. We staged it all over town, gay bars, movie theatres, punk rock clubs — had a great time. Chuck wrote a few more pieces, but unfortunately, he wanted to play all the female parts. This didn’t go down very well with the women in the group who wanted an opportunity to “star” in a roll. So the group disbanded. Chuck has gone on to write some very well received plays (including one on Broadway)

Question 3: Both of you are known, among other things, for doing character voices. I know from studying with you that these characters are based on real people, family members, for example. How did you develop that approach to characters? Can anyone find similar inspiration? What if someone has a really boring family, do we need to sometimes go to other relationships like childhood friends, teachers, clergy and the like?

Both answer: We don’t think boring families exist. If you dig underneath what you feel is boring, you more than likely will find a pretty interesting person masquerading as a drone. You can absolutely though, go to other relationships — but you need to know something about their “emotional” life for it to sound like more than a funny voice or simply an imitation. Both of us have theatre backgrounds and we believe in building a character from the inside out.

Question 4: Dick, through the years you’ve been involved in many collaborative efforts. The staff at WCFL in the years when Chickenman and The Tooth Fairy were developed. The Dick and Bert years. And certainly the team there at the Radio Ranch today. Has this collaborative environment been the “magic” ingredient? That is, could you or would you have experienced a similar kind of success if you just “did a single?”

Dick answers: No

Christine adds: I believe that he may not have experienced the same kind of success, but he would still have been very successful — and remember, every town needs a good dog catcher.

Dick adds: But even if you’re working alone or prefer to work alone, you are collaborating with the people who constitute your past experiences.

Christine responds: I agree. I believe if you are willing to “accept” success (because some people fight against it) you will ultimately find success. At the same time Dick asked me to join him I had two other opportunities. One was to handle PR for a Feminist Theatre Company in Minneapolis, the other was to join CBS publications — I believe I would have been successful in either of those jobs and parlayed them into meaningful work. It just so happens the little voice in my head told me to jump on the Orkin bandwagon — and I’m a big believer in paying attention to intuition.

Question 5: In the numerous times that I’ve heard you both speak, you have sometimes made certain key points more than once; but I’ve always been impressed that your supporting research is fresh each time. What drives your desire to find new research?

Both answer: It’s not that we necessarily search it out it’s more like it just appears and confirms what we believe. Lately, especially, we have come across more and more support on the power of story telling in advertising.

Question 6: A number of times on my blog I’ve written posts about how learning to write more powerfully, more effectively has also improved my voiceover work. Do you see a similar connection?

Both answer: When you’re writing powerfully, you’re writing from the heart. It has an emotional aspect to it — when you voice that copy, and choose to tap into that same emotion vs. “just read it” – your performance reflects that connection.

Question 7: How do you handle rejection?

Dick answers: I don’t take it personally. After all, I’m not rejecting myself, somebody else is.

Christine adds: Maybe we’re just thick skinned, but we don’t gnash our teeth and tear our clothes over rejection. From a creative standpoint we send out several spot solutions to a client’s problem. Most of the time one (if not 2 or more) solve his or her problem.

Question 8: Do either of you take voiceover jobs outside of the Radio Ranch? No. What about other acting or directing opportunities?

Both answer: Usually we’re so busy with work here, traveling for ad clubs and family life that there isn’t time.

Christine adds: Years ago, I did direct the West Coast premiere of a play and it was great fun, but took up sooo much time. I do have another writing partner, Julie Roux, and she and I are trying our hands at screenwriting. Julie’s background is also advertising. So we want to see if we can write something interesting that lasts longer than sixty seconds.

Question 9: No doubt people ask you all the time for your suggestions about how to get into voiceover work. What are a few key things to concentrate on first?

Both answer: Most people have the belief that doing voice over work is incredibly easy. They’ve been told time and time again that they have a great voice, funny voice, interesting voice, whatever. It’s akin to saying to someone, you have long fingers, you must play the piano really good. So first you need to train — take an improv class, take a beginning acting class, get away from listening to your voice. Second, observe life — listen to how people talk. Eavesdrop on a conversation when you’re at Starbucks or in line at the movie theatre. Try to find what’s unique about you — so that it doesn’t sound like you’re parroting what you’ve heard before (a huge problem in radio where so many DJs sound interchangeable).

Question 10: How has technology changed your work in the last 5 years?

Both answer: Research on demographics and competition and target consumer are readily available on the Internet. And there’s more info on the details of products and services — why people buy. Every new version of Pro-tools enhances the work that we do and the options that we have.

Again my thanks to Dick Orkin and Christine Coyle for taking time for their hectic schedule dealing with everything involved with moving to a new office, to answer these questions. There is no doubt in my mind that my first training session with Dick Orkin, 10 years ago, was one of the most significant turning points in my voiceover career. He it was who taught me to tell a story rather than be a generic announcer. And Christine and Dick have both taught me so much about writing more powerfully and effectively. If you’d like to learn more, visit their web site, here.

The sixth interview in my on-going series with people I think you need to meet is with Philip Banks, a very talented gentleman as you can hear from his demos.
A big part of the reason I wanted to include Philip among my interview guests is because of the many valuable and insightful contributions he’s made to the Voiceover Bulletin Board, several of which I’ve highlighted previously on this blog. (Just search my blog archives on the word “Banks” to find them.)
My first question for Philip: You’ve been working in the voiceover field for well over a decade now. What did you do before? And what turned your attention in the direction of working as a voiceover talent?
Philip: I left Oxford University with a double first in Law and Economics and went to work in investment management. My last job was Investment Director for a Swiss Bank. In 1989 a good friend was changing jobs and she explained to me how the new commercial radio station for which she was going to work made its money and how radio commercials were produced. Purely for my own amusement I hired a recording studio and put together an audio montage of commercials, imaging, character voices and anything else that dropped into my mind. Phase II was to mail copies of this to anyone and everyone. I did my first paid Voice Over session on my 30th birthday and it’s been downhill every since. Went full-time pro in May 1992.
Follow-up question: So, was this interest in voiceover something that had been in the back of your mind from the time you were little or only developed as an adult?
Philip: I was born to do this. As the midwife slapped me on the behind a few seconds after my birth I growled “In a world where medicine and violence merge ….” Not much has changed since then except women now slap my face.
My second question for Philip: Since you’ve started your voiceover career, what turn of events has been the most surprising to you?
Philip: ISDN and working from home most of the time. Didn’t expect it, certainly would never have predicted [being] the voice of 3 major TV networks doing the biz from a “wee huttie” in Portgordon, Scotland. It does make me laugh when people say to me without a hint of irony, “It’s easy for you. I don’t have your local market!”
My third question: Have some things about working in voiceovers turned out about the way you expected? If so, what?
Philip: With apologies to anyone reading this who is just starting. Yes, the increasing flight to quality in the last few years. Talk to any producer or director and they will tell you that they are always looking for new voices but most of those who claim to be voiceovers are not able to do the job. The net result of this flood of new talent is that many who do the hiring are now getting a list together of the voices they need and then slamming the door shut.
My fourth question: Was there a specific experience that represented the turning point for you? That is, when you knew for sure things were going to work out well?
Philip: I went to a TV station to voice some promotions, my first time ever in such a place. VT rolled and the sound engineer took some level.
“Ah!” said Sian the producer, “you’ve done this before!”
My fifth question: How do you handle rejection?
Philip: I don’t, I’m not being rejected. Think of the number of productions in the world requiring a voice over, I don’t get MOST of them. Around 75% of the world’s population live off of less than $1 per day, so as a failure and a reject I do quite well.
My sixth question: Have you ever been cast for a voiceover job that you wondered whether you could pull it off?
Philip: Singing – Two hour session from hell. It worked, just.
My seventh question: Are there things you need to avoid in order to be successful?
Philip: Idol worship is one. If you catch yourself bowing at the altar of (INSERT THE VOICE OVER NAME HERE) then re-think where you are going. Having a degree of respect for other artists is good as long as that respect extends to everyone, especially yourself. When working, take doing well what you do seriously, but do not take yourself too seriously.
My eighth question: How do you define success?
Philip: Not being able to tell the difference between work time and play time. A couple of years ago I had a session booked for Best Buys at 7pm UK time. While we were all settling down the sound engineer in New York commented on his commute to work and the poor weather. One of the ad agency people who was somewhere else in the USA on a phone patch made a similar remark. I said that because I had about 30 minutes to kill before the session I’d been sat on the beach drinking tea – feel free to swear at me. They did!!
My ninth question: For the individual who has had some modest success (e.g.: a decent part-time income) from voiceover work, can you suggest some guidelines for deciding whether to take the leap to full-time voiceover work?
Philip: If you lost your full-time job tomorrow what would you do? If the answer is anything other than, “Well I’d give doing voice over work fulltime a try” then don’t jump. Including business expenses write down exactly how much you need to generate in fee income per year. Divide the number by 46 to give you a 46 week working year (6 weeks with no work). Divide the 46 by three to give a daily amount. OK, that’s what you need to earn 3 days per week, 46 weeks per year. Look at what you’ve done so far in your career and see how much your average session earns you and how many people you had to contact in order to get each session. Early in your career you have to play the numbers game, they’ll look something like this.
Average session = $100
Daily target 3 sessions at $100 = $300
Weekly target $300 per day 3 days per week = $900
Annual target $900 per week 46 weeks per year = $41,400
How many people did you have to contact to get 1 session?
You need to multiply that figure by 414 to find out where you start.
Is there an easy way? Yes, see above for details.
My thanks to Philip Banks for taking time from his schedule to answer these questions. As you can see, his advice is practical and direct. In other words, the very best sort. While I don’t idolize Philip (see his answer to my seventh question above) I do have the utmost respect for both his talent and his business acumen. You can find his website here.

The fifth interview in my on-going series with people I think you need to meet is with Connie Terwilliger, a very talented lady as you can hear (and see) from her demos.

A big part of the reason I wanted to include Connie among my interview guests is because of this page and this page on her website. Several months ago as I was searching for other voiceover artists’ sites, I was intrigued by the considerable amount of information available on Connie’s site. But, we’ll get into greater detail about that as the interview goes on.

My first question for Connie: I believe I’ve read that you worked in local radio, at least part-time. Were you ever in radio full-time? If so, how did you know it was time to move away from that and toward full-time voiceover work?

Connie: I never worked full-time radio. Did a couple of on-air shifts while at Coe College (licensed station – KCOE-FM) and served as the volunteer Public Affairs Director. But never considered going into radio as a career. Ended up at a TV station as the weekend Graphic Artist – my degree was in Art and Psychology. After moving to full time production assistant, floor director, I decided to get my Master’s in Radio and TV so that I could produce and direct TV programs. While I was at Indiana University, I worked about 20 hours a week at WTIU as a Producer/Director and as one of the hosts of a weekly “magazine” type show (before PM Magazine) called Bloomington Gazette. That was in addition to doing TV announcing, carrying a full graduate class load, teaching assistant for a class of outside the department students AND working a Sunday shift at WGTC – spinning gospel music records (as I recall, the only live show in an otherwise automated station, but don’t quote me on that part).

My Master’s degree got me a job at Channel 8 – KFMB-TV in San Diego as a floor director/relief director, but after about 3 months of that, I decided that I didn’t want to direct news, so I ended up as a part-time “live” staff announcer for the station and began free lancing as a producer, writer and on and off camera talent for corporate communications and commercials.

I started working weekends and relief in radio (KJQY-FM, KYXY-FM and finally at Sunny 103.7). The idea of working full time in radio never really came up – I was simply too busy doing other things and never had any ideas about being the top morning or drive time DJ in the city.

For a while in the 80’s I was one of the most heard female voices in the city – Channel 8 had both a busy production department and an affiliated radio station with a great creative department, plus with word of mouth and a good agent, I was working at all the recording studios as well. But I still never thought of myself as a voiceover person. I wore lots of hats and wanted it that way.

I did have a full-time job for about 9 years…I worked as a producer/writer/talent for General Dynamics – in what was affectionately called “The Hidden Film Factory.” During that period of time, I had to give up my weekend radio work due to travel requirements. At the same time, I was unable to do the kind of voiceover marketing I was used to and eventually my commercial voiceover work dropped off. We closed the doors at GD in 1995 and I went back out as a free lance producer/writer/talent. As each year passed, I started to focus more on the talent side of the business and finally now in the last couple of years I have been able to make my living doing voiceovers. I didn’t miss the radio gig, and I also discovered that I really liked NOT producing! If an interesting script comes my way, I will still consider it, but time is the issue now. I am quite busy with voiceover work. Well, I’m also the President of MCA-I until January 2007, so that has been taking quite a bit of my time this year

My second question for Connie: Did you grow up with an interest in being “one of those voices” you heard on TV or Radio? Or was that something that came to you later in life?

Connie: I never wanted to be “one of those voices”. I really had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up. I didn’t do the things you hear about. I never put on a show for the neighborhood, or recorded myself, or even did much acting. I “starred” in my 2nd grade play (I remember the play very well actually), but didn’t get back on the stage until some 40 or so years later doing Community Theater.

It was more of a one foot in front of the other – using each step as a building block. No real plan, but I have always had the ability to jump into things and figure them out – without asking a lot of questions. Eyes and ears open. A side effect of a military dad, I think.

Now, I’d love to be one of those voices doing national spots – but I chose to live in San Diego and don’t have agents in LA, Chicago, or New York. So I rarely get an opportunity to audition for that work.

My third question: Do you have any musical training? If so, please describe your musical background.

Connie: I come from a very musical family. My mother taught piano (still does at 79), plays the cello – played organ during my formative years. My brother Eric is a world class French horn player in Europe. I played the piano, drums, stand up bass and violin in little bits and spurts up to about early high school. I sang in the chorus for a year or so. My dad was in the Marine Corps, so I moved a lot – and it was difficult to stick to anything for any length of time. Perhaps that experience is what helped me learn to think on my feet. I can still read music and occasionally pick up the violin and scratch out a few scales.

Follow-up question: Several years ago I attended a master class with Marice Tobias. In that class she made sort of a passing comment about how often she found musical training in the backgrounds of the best voiceover people. How, if it has, do you think your musical training has helped your work as a voiceover (or even on camera) talent?

Connie: There is a lot of musicality in reading aloud. In my classes, I reference the musical scale and certain musical terms, as well as try to help the student understand pacing by discussing the different amount of time one might linger on a particular “note” or word – or how much time to pause between words, phrases or sentences. At times I encourage my students to follow along an imaginary musical scale as they are reading – raising or lowering their hand as they use different notes. Some get it, some don’t.
My fourth question: Do you have any formal theatrical/acting training? Again, if so, please describe.

Connie: Ah, formal theatrical or acting training. Not really. And none when I started doing voiceovers. I had a natural ability to read copy. However, at a certain point, I realized that I had reached the end of my ability to improve on my own. So I bought a book on voiceovers – “Word of Mouth” – and began to really study other voices and do some serious self-evaluation. Because I was doing on-camera work as well, I did take the occasional acting workshop and still do today. But, I was never going to be “just” talent – I wanted to do it all – so the talent part was never a primary focus. Now that I am working full-time as “talent”, I am taking more acting classes and attending VO workouts with other professionals.

What I have learned about myself is that I take direction well and really appreciate another brain listening to my delivery.

My fifth question: What kind of training do you recommend for those who are new to voiceover work? What about for those who are already working professionals?
Connie: For the newbie to voiceovers, I recommend learning about the business and their own voice. A serious self evaluation to understand their own voice and how it might fit into the world of voiceovers.

I am working on a book for just this kind of person. Well, three kinds actually – the complete newbie (I’ve been told I have a nice voice), the DJ wanting to do voiceover and the actor considering doing a demo). It is a pre-voiceover book…basically a self-evaluation guide to see if you should start the process. But it is not published yet, so in the meantime…
If there are reasonably priced VO workshops in your city, then take one to get the big picture of the industry and to establish a baseline understanding of your own voice. If there are not any VO workshops, then get one of the comprehensive VO books out there. “The Art of Voice Acting” and “There’s Money Where Your Mouth Is” are two I recommend. Read the book aloud, recording all the exercises. You must have a realistic understanding or your voice and what it can do.

But if there are not any specific voiceover classes, then any acting class or improve class is also a good plan. But there are differences – for example, no memorizing means no long rehearsals, so you have to understand and perform the copy very quickly. (edited for clarity)
Working professionals can benefit from the same things. And any acting class or performance will help dig a bit deeper into copy. And don’t forget to listen to other voiceover performances.

My sixth question: Nancy Cartwright often speaks about the influence her mentor, Daws Butler, had on her work and life. Is there anyone to whom you look as a mentor?

Connie: Interesting question. In the process of working on this book I mentioned, I thought about this. No – I didn’t have one particular mentor. However, I think anyone who has crossed my path could be considered a mentor of the moment.

My seventh question: How do you deal with rejection?

Connie: There are two kinds of rejection. In my case, at this stage in my career, I am usually able to shrug it off because I know that the decision is subjective. With my background as a producer/director/writer, I have had to be the one selecting the talent for a project and I know how subjective this process is. It is very interesting to hear a spot that I auditioned for and try to figure out what it was about the selected voice that the producer liked. This in itself is like taking a voiceover class. Was it the voice quality, the pacing, the certain little twist on a word?

However, for a beginner, there may be something more to the rejection that needs to be considered. I find that many times the newbie still has not done that all important self-evaluation, so their auditions may not even be coming close to the “right” read. You read a lot of posts to the voiceover message boards about not landing any jobs. Then you listen to the person’s demo and the answer is right there – the demo is not competitive. They do not have a clear understanding of the industry or their own voice – or what the producer is actually listening for.
This is a result of too many voiceover acting classes that offer the first time participant the “opportunity” to create a demo. Too much too soon – now the person “thinks” they are in the voiceover business because they have a demo.

My eighth question: What do you like best about working in voiceover?

Connie: Not having to put on make up and wear formal work clothes. I still love to go to a studio to do a session – there is something about being there with the producer, the client and the engineer – the energy I guess – the opportunity to entertain. But I do most of my work these days out of my own studio (either ISDN, self-directed or with phone patch). I always challenge myself to try to bring a better understanding of the copy to every take. Sometimes it’s hard to stop recording – because there is always one more interpretation. But you have to stop sometime and send the client something that will prompt them to send back a little note saying that they “love” it.

At the same time, I’ve been doing this for so long now that I have regular clients who go back years, so in addition to trying to bring something new to the table, I also have to match tone and style for things that were done initially several years ago. That to me is fun.

I am a bit of a loner, so I love being holed up in my own place working at my own pace. That was one of the things I really didn’t like about radio. You actually had to be there at a certain time.

My ninth question: What do you like least?

Connie: The bookkeeping. Negotiating rates and following up with the slow payers. I like the artistic technical things like mixing audio, but not the engineering technical stuff (troubleshooting that 60 cycle hum in the system) – because I never really learned that side of things. I do love what my audio software allows me to do. I use Adobe Audition and a special telephony software for my IVR work called Vox Studio. I’ve always been an early adopter of computer technology, so that part of the technical side is interesting. But a seasoned audio engineer, I am not. Whenever a client wants to be on the line with me during a session, I would prefer to be in someone else’s studio (or using my ISDN studio) so that all I have to do is concentrate on my delivery, not if I remembered to hit the record button again.

My tenth question: What’s the inspiration for putting so many valuable resources, articles and links on your website? (For example, my introduction to the Voiceover Bulletin Board was through your site.)

Connie: As with most voiceover people who have a visible presence on the Internet (I have been online since 1996, so I have a pretty huge web presence), I get a lot of questions about the business. The same questions are asked over and over again, so in order to preserve my sanity (and have time to actually work) it made sense to summarize the basic answers on my website and provide links to other resources.

What has developed online over the years has been quite amazing. There is a sense of community – a global community. As time permits, I participate in the various message boards and forums. And I’m not always offering advice. I have gotten some great tips on using my software and troubleshooting my system.

It is interesting how the same questions are still asked. And people still are putting the cart before the horse and then wondering why they are not getting the work. That will never change – there will always be people who want something badly, but will never actually have that combination of right place, right time with the right tools.

My thanks again to Connie Terwilliger for taking time from her busy schedule to answer all of these questions with such thoroughness and thoughtfulness. I’ve linked previously to some individual bits of Connie’s site, but you really should explore yourself. There’s much there of value to you whatever your level of experience.

This post is the fourth in the series of interviews I’m conducting with people I think you need to meet, people who have valuable and important advice and comments about voiceover work; although in this case you probably already know my guest by his excellent work for Fox, CBS, NBC and many other high profile clients.

We’re talking this time with Joe Cipriano. In addition to his main web site, Joe blogs about his work from time to time here. You don’t need me to tell you how talented Joe is, but in case you need reminding, you can check out his demos on his main web page, here.

My first question for Joe: You grew up in Connecticut. How do you think growing up there influenced who you are today?

Joe: Because I grew up in a small town (Oakville, Connecticut) I think I’ve always had a sense of community in everything I do. It’s important to me to know my peers in my business and know my neighbors where I live. In our business your peers are your support group. There is a great exchange of information and support as you collectively work towards a similar goal. Same goes in my personal life, there is a great comfort in having friends with similar goals, whether it’s the shared experience and support of raising your kids together or doing something together to give back to your community. Some of my best friends are my neighbors.

My second question for Joe: The first time I heard your name, it was as you were being introduced as a member of a panel at the Second Annual International Radio Creative and Voiceover Summit in 1997. The panel’s focus was on getting out of radio and into voiceover full-time. I’ll come back to the other members of that panel in a moment, but for someone reading this interview, who is thinking seriously about making that transition, what are the first few steps he or she should take? Or, what are the questions to ask of oneself?

Joe: Making a career change is not something to be taken lightly. It always seems I’m contacted by someone in radio who has just been fired and thinks now is the perfect time to start up that voice over career they’ve always wanted and start makin’ some REAL money. Wrong. That’s not the time to start a voice over career. It takes a long time and a lot of commitment to build a voice over career and the chances of actually being able to make a living off of voice overs is unfortunately very slim. With that said, I still think it’s worth the hard work, if it’s what you want.

The time to start pursuing voice overs is when you HAVE a radio gig. If you’re on the air 5 hours a day, that leaves a lot of time to work on your other career. I’ve often said that if you spend just one hour a day, every day, on your voice over career you will see great success. Too often many will start that way and then a few weeks into it, loose interest or find other distractions. Make the commitment to work on your voice over career every single day and I guarantee you will make progress. Keep your day job and pursue your dream. It’s much easier pursuing a dream if you have a day (or night) job to pay the bills.

My third question: If I remember the story correctly, you were working on the air in LA, someone at Fox heard you and thought you had the sound they needed for their new network. That’s not likely to happen to Joe or Joan Jock working in upstate New York. So, does that mean he or she has to move to LA to start full-time in voiceover?

Joe: Actually, I was doing the afternoon shift on KIIS FM when this happened. I was filling in for Big Ron O’Brien on KIIS FM and the head of on air marketing (for Fox) was driving home in rush hour traffic and heard me on the air. My voice interested him and he called the station to find out who my agent was and brought me in to kick my tires, so to speak. I ended up getting the job. That was in 1988. 18 years later, I’m still at Fox. That was the best fill in shift I ever did on KIIS 🙂 But truthfully, it was pretty flukey. That just doesn’t happen very often. Anyone working in radio in any market anywhere in the country can be a player in the voice over field because of the proliferation of ISDN and the fact that it is now the standard in the industry. It doesn’t matter where you live anymore, you’re just an ISDN phone call away from Los Angeles, New York and Chicago.

My fourth question: On that panel with you back in 1997 were three other very talented guys, John Leader, Bobby Ocean and Danny Dark. You were, I think, the youngest member of the panel. Did these guys influence your work?

Joe: I knew John Leader from my radio days. He was the CHR Editor at Radio and Records at the time. I got to know him a little better while we both were doing voice overs in LA. I had never met Bobby before but always admired his on air work and his radio imaging work so it was a pleasure meeting him that day.

Danny Dark was the MAN. I had admired his work on NBC for years and as the voice of Budweiser, Keebler Cookies and all those wonderful commercials with Chuck Blore. I met Danny in 1995 and we became instant best friends. He was a mentor and such a great supporter of everything I did. My wife Ann and I had so many great times with Danny and his wife Jobee. He was an amazing talent, every word that came out of his mouth was pure jazz and he was probably the most fun person in the world to be around. Everywhere you went with Danny, he was a star. People just flocked to him, waiters would fall over themselves to get whatever he wanted and he would remember their name and show ’em the love. He had a personality bigger than life.

He had a nickname for everyone, mine was Josie. He would call me on the phone out of the blue on any given day and say, “Josie, you sounded f-ing fantastic on Fox last night.” He was so supportive and such a warm and giving person. I learned a lot from him about the business and about life and was so saddened when he passed away in 2004. I can honestly say I think about Danny just about every day especially when I walk onto the NBC lot every afternoon.

My fifth question: In the 10 years since I saw you on that panel, what have been the most significant changes in the voiceover business?

Joe: ISDN was already being used for voice over sessions in ’97, but in the past 10 years it has become the norm. When you sit in a movie theater these days, the voices you hear narrating those trailers were 98% of time recorded via ISDN. Many of the trailer houses don’t even have voice over booths anymore.

I use ISDN as a convenience, but I still go into sessions as often as possible. I go in to NBC just about every day and I’m the only announcer who still goes in to Fox for sessions when it fits my schedule. When I go to Fox they have to check the voice booth, clear out the cobwebs and tap on the mic to make sure it still works because all of their voices are ISDN now. I think it’s important to have face time with the people you work for and with. It takes an effort to do that and it means you have to build in travel time into your schedule which also means you can’t do the volume of sessions you could do ISDN without driving in, but I think it’s worth the effort and the lost time.

I was among the very first voice over people to use ISDN. I made a deal with Fox back in 1994. I told them about this new technology (at the time it was Switch 56…ISDN came later) I explained the benefits to them and to me and we agreed we’d give it a go. They bought a Telos Zephyr and I bought one for my home. We ended up with two of the very first Zephyrs to come off the assembly line. Just look what we started. 🙂

Follow-up question: Given the greater isolation that has resulted (at least for those who don’t make the effort to get out and go to a studio in person), do you sometimes regret playing a role in the proliferation of ISDN?

Joe: As a business decision it really isn’t an isolation, in fact it’s more of an outreach, a door opened not closed. I do sessions several times a week via ISDN to Food Network in New York City. I’m in Beverly Hills, CA. Without ISDN not only would I not be able to do a job like this, I would also not have had the opportunity to work with the great people there. I think I’ve been a voice on Food Network for about 4 years now and the relationships I’ve made with the folks there will stay with me for a long time and if I’m lucky I’ll probably work with them in the future as they move on in the business. So, ISDN doesn’t isolate you as much as it makes you available to many more ad agencies, networks, trailer houses and so on all over the country, perhaps the world.

No regrets on being early in to the ISDN technology in 1994 and seeing how it is used today. It’s been a win/win for both producers and talent alike. Also, please don’t mistake a talent’s decision to do all of his or her work via ISDN as a lack of effort. Many times it’s a decision made because of where the talent lives and where the buyer is or by the fact that it would be impossible to handle all of the bookings in one day by driving to each one. It’s an economic decision as well.

I just don’t want to see talent chained to an ISDN box. Sitting in one room and cranking out sessions can be wearing. It’s healthy to get out and go to sessions, if you can and that is why I do it. I’m not the kind of person that can just be hunkered down in my studio each day. My motto has always been moderation and variety in business and life.

My sixth question: Regarding technology, I loved the story you posted on your blog about doing a voiceover session using Source-Connect from a cruise ship. How confident were you, going in to that session, that things would work well enough for you to get the job done?
Joe: Actually we didn’t use Source Connect on the cruise ship because the Internet connection was too slow. We did use the Internet on board the ship to do the sessions. Fox and NBC sent the spots I was to read to as mp3s. I downloaded them and imported them into ProTools on my laptop and recorded my voice tracks and then mp3’d my tracks back to them.

To answer your question about how confident I am when using technology to do sessions, the answer is: all you can do is plan it out the best you can and accept that if it works…great…if it doesn’t, you did your best. I’ve done ISDN sessions from a house in Barbados. I’ve put ISDN lines into hotels and homes all over the world. From Aspen to New York City…Positano, Florence and Venice, Italy to London, England. I did ISDN voice over sessions from the Royal Albert Hall in London in a BBC booth court-side while watching a tennis match with my friend John Lloyd.

My seventh question: Some people see auditions as a form of competition, trying to beat out the other applicants. Others see it as a process of providing the clients with a variety of options from which to choose the right voice, experience and tone for their project. Do you come down on one side or the other?

Joe: I love auditions. Auditions are when you can be your most free and really have fun. There is absolutely no pressure, it’s a clean slate. You can do whatever you want and make it as memorable and different as you can. Auditions are a true joy. You’re lucky if you book one job for every 50 auditions you do, so relax and enjoy it.
Sometimes the reality hits you when you actually GET the job and you think…hmmm, do I remember what I did in the audition? 🙂

My eighth question: Back when you were growing up in CT, did you wish you could be one of “those voices” that you heard on TV? Did you always want to be a performer of some kind? Or did that come later?

Joe: Ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to be involved with television, either on-camera or as a voice. I thought radio was the logical way to do that. So I used radio to move me along through the business. Radio supported me while I reached for other goals and finally after many tries brought me to Los Angeles. I owe a lot to radio, it was always a good friend.

My ninth question: Some folks seem to think the voiceover business is shrinking, with consolidation and other corporate mergers. Others see the voiceover business is growing, with new (sometimes non-traditional) opportunities for work cropping up all the time. Your thoughts?

Joe: There is a new cable channel introduced every few weeks. The business is growing faster than ever before. These new channels need marketing, they need promos and people to voice these promos. There are more opportunities than ever before for an up and coming voice over artist and more ways to market yourself than ever before. Because everyone uses ISDN now, you can be a voice talent and live in Florida or Maine or anywhere and do sessions every day in Los Angeles, New York or Chicago. The opportunities have never been this huge. When I started as the voice of the Fox Network in 1988, there were about 8 guys who did network promos and they all lived in Los Angeles. Today there are hundreds of promo voices and they are scattered all over the country.

My thanks to Joe Cipriano for taking time out of his very business schedule to such thoughtful answers to these questions. I’ve never forgotten how gracious and kind he was (as were Danny Dark, John Leader and Bobby Ocean as well) to me in the moments following that panel discussion back in 1997. Clearly he’s a first class guy and I wish him much continued success not only professionally but personally as well.

This post is the third in the series of interviews I’m conducting with people I think you need to meet, people who have valuable and important advice and comments about voiceover work.

We’re talking this time with DB Cooper because she is one of the people not only working as a voiceover talent, but also making a significant contribution to the voiceover world. More about that toward the end of our interview. DB is a very talented lady. (You can listen to her demos here to see what I mean.)

My first question for DB: Did the idea of “being one of those voices” you heard on TV or at the movies start when you were small? Or did that develop later in life?
DB: I don’t think I thought about “being one of those voices”. I just always was a performer of sorts and always, always wanted to do something with cartoons—I was in Kindergarten when I started telling people I wanted to be a cartoonist when I grew up. Not PC for the early ’60s believe me! But my parents were cool– Jazz cool–and they were right behind whatever I wanted to do.

My second question for DB: As an adult, actually doing some of what you’d previously dreamed about, what do you get the most delight from?

DB: Working as a peer with people who were once my heroes.

Third question: What has been the biggest surprise to you about working in the voiceover field? That is, given that everyone has expectations about how things will be, what is the most different from your expectations?

DB: That no matter how high you get in this business, incompetence and inefficiency still rule the day. I work for CBS Radio in Boston, and the hardest thing I have to contend with is the same kind of overwritten commercial copy as I did at the small radio stations of my youth.

Fourth question: Is there anything that you’ve had to struggle to get rid of, overcome or otherwise learn to work around in the way you speak? (Regional accent? Stutter? Anything like that?)

DB: I have a cumbersome “s” that shows up every once in a while. Otherwise, my smart-alec attitude was the thing that needed the most wrangling. Thank goodness I’ve got that under control.

Fifth question: Do you prefer to be in the spotlight? Or somewhere in the background?

DB: Honestly–it depends on the production. I’ve been a stage director and producer as well as an actor, so I enjoy all facets of putting up a creative project. I enjoy excelling to my utmost no matter what I’m working on: teaching, voiceacting, web design, whatever.

Sixth question: How do you define success in your approach to voiceover?

DB: Success comes from yes answers to:

are you working?
are you making enough money to SAVE some money?
are you happy?

The Trifecta = success.

Seventh question: How do you handle rejection?

DB: What rejection?

Eighth question: For someone living in New York or LA, auditioning in person at an agent’s or casting director’s office is still very common. Your thoughts about auditions? Are auditions a big part of your efforts to find work?

DB: Oh heck yeah. I get auditions from disparate sources all the time. I knock myself out to be the best person for the part, send ’em to the requester and forget about ’em. The most interesting audition will make me say “If they don’t cast me, they’re crazy!” before I send it and forget about it.

Ninth question: What has worked for you in finding voiceover work? Are there anything approaches that you won’t try again?

DB: Pleasant persistence has a way of working. My job at CBS took 5 years to get. I just expected to have it, so I kept reminding the PD I was an asset. Honestly–the best thing I have learned is that it pays to be a nice guy.

As for stuff I wouldn’t try again–I can’t tell you. If I ever did something so dunderheaded that I’d never do it again in the search for work, I was probably so traumatized that it’s been wiped out of my memory.

You know, when people ask me how to “get into voice over” I tell them “I can tell you what I did, but it won’t do you any good.” Many of the avenues I took to get to where I am don’t exist any more–the small radio stations with a full air staff, for instance.

Tenth question: Can you give us a bit of history about the VO-BB.COM? I’ve read almost the entire archives of the site so I know there was a BB of some kind of which you had previously been a part. To the degree you’re comfortable, please talk about what happened?

DB: There was a message board I found out about from a colleague back in the 90’s called The Voiceover CyberStation at VoiceArtist.com. Some very lively conversation and bright correspondents. Had a mostly absent master of the keys, but he did ask for help with a makeover of the site in late 2003, and I offered my hand. He and I had a good deal of correspondence, but the revamping plans died on the vine a couple of times. Then the domain expired and the board went down in late 2004. Nobody could get ahold of the Webmaster, and so many people wrote to me asking what was going on, that I made up this board, VO-BB.COM. I wrote back to folks saying we could give this new venue a try, tell your friends, etc and wow–look what has happened. I honestly don’t have a clue under the sun how people find us, but they do, so it’s growing.

My thanks to DB Cooper for taking time out of her very hectic schedule to answer these questions.

And here’s my answer to that last question from DB. I first found a link to the VO-BB.COM while I was browsing through Connie Terwilliger’s site. At the time I was searching for articles to which I could link from this blog, and Connie has a number of useful suggestions and ideas. When I saw a link to something called the VO-BB.COM, my eyes lit up and I’ve been a regular pest there every since.